Wacky Norwegian Discrimination
Discrimination runs rampaged in every country – Norway is no different. In fact, if you are from any other culture, even English, and want to live in Norway, be prepared to be discriminated against in the most unlikeliest of situations.
Call Centres
Everyone hates it when a stranger calls up to try and flog a ‘great deal’ on the telephone. Normally it is the poor person who has been woken up or disturbed who hangs up on the caller, but in Norway it is the caller who hangs up first. I get called up by sellers at least two times a week – usually phone companies trying to get me to switch over. As soon as I speak about 50% of the callers hang up on me. Even my own bank hangs up on me when I call them (like today, hence the inspiration for this post)! I think it’s because I don’t speak Norwegian, I hope it’s not because I’m not Norwegian. Even though I have the right to live in Norway whether I speak Norwegian or not, I am still not treated normal, like a Norwegian.
No English – No University
Norwegians have a habit of discriminating against themselves. In fact, to be admitted into an undergraduate course at a Norwegian university you must know English. Even if you are Norwegian born and bred and have your ancestry traced to St Olav, you still can’t attend university unless you have passed High School English.
Getting in Lifts with the Elderly
The elderly are very forward about who they like and who they don’t like. Moose and I were in a lift with Lilu. An elderly lady entered. She said something to me and not knowing what she said I just smiled and nodded my head. Then she started cooing at Lilu. The lift door opened again and there stood a woman with a pram, however, there was no room in the lift. She didn’t hop on and the doors closed. The elderly lady muttered something and smiled at us. She hopped off at the next level. I turned to Moose and asked what she said: ‘B@*+? foreigners’. I was a little shocked. The woman with the baby might have been from Somalia or Nigeria but the colour of her skin branded her as ‘immigrant’. I was offended because I was the same as the woman – an immigrant with a baby. I wonder what the elderly lady would have done if she knew I was an immigrant too.
Filling Quotas
If there is one position to sit on a board of directors and you are a highly qualified male, your lowly qualified female co-worker has first dibs on the position before you. This is because the government has set quotas on how many percentages of women and people with ethnic backgrounds should be on a company board. This discriminates against qualified people.
Yoga Classes
I have a Brazilian friend who goes to yoga classes. For the past year the instructor has ignored her and even walks around the class helping everyone else. My friend speaks Norwegian well enough to have a job where Norwegian is the working language. My friend feels that it is not her Norwegian that the instructor is avoiding.
These daily discriminations make the soul heavy. I wonder how long it would take to be equal to a Norwegian in Norway.
Subscribe
RSS
Many Norwegians know what they are doing when they pick wild mushrooms. This knowledge is passed down the family during mushroom hunting trips. The hard-core mushroom hunters go into the mountain wilderness for days to get the best finds.
There is an opposition in everything. At the darkest time of the year, we celebrate Christmas. And at the exact opposite end, when the midnight sun is at its highest, we celebrate Midsummer.
The further ‘out of the way’ you go the more common it is to see folk cottages standing by the side of roads, along fjords or in a thicket of trees, minding their own business. 
Today herding reindeer is synonymous with the Sami culture. It is recently thought that the Vikings were the first people to herd reindeer.
I find the bank hanging up on you strange. Despite their language of business being Norwegian, I would think they’d see forwarding your call to someone competent in English as a better business move than simply hanging up, which is just rude.
Having to know English to go to University isn’t a bad idea if you ask me. Several courses during my time at a lowly poly-tech have required a basic or higher proficiency in English, and many university educated people will end up in jobs where they face English daily.
The rest of the post seems to me to be individual racist people, which would be hard for me to comment on. I’m generally not that surprised when I hear elderly people blurt out weird racist stuff though, they grew up in a different country, have probably had very little interaction with foreigners and have probably read way too much negative stuff about brown people in the papers through the years.
(For the record, I’m not saying they’re right to be racist, just that it doesn’t surprise me much)
____________________
from L-Jay:
Yeah, these things are just odd to me, a little funny, actually. Being a foreigner I find that some Norwegians act oddly. For example there have been a few times when a Norwegian finds out I only speak English and they walk away from me…lol. Or, a few times a Norwegian has moved to another seat on the bus because I’m talking English with another immigrant. This behaviour is extremely noticeable by foreigners and a lot tend to get offended by it.
The English thing is very weird…lol – English isn’t a national language but yet you must know it to go to school in Norway and use it in many other areas of life. That’s ironic? I sometimes wish English was a national language, then I wouldn’t feel so guilty finding Norwegian hard to learn
I made a reply on How to Get a Job in Norway as a commenter has been offended by Norwegians. I wrote about how every country suffers with racism, you only notice it when you are on the ‘other’ side.
But even though I’m a foreigner I think I’m very lucky in Norway, more than most foreigners. I think it is largely because I have a Norwegian husband and my kids are Norwegian. I’m very active in the community too. But because of this I’ve got an ‘on the fence’ position. I empathise with both foreigners and Norwegians. I think it is important to mention the good, the bad and the beautiful about Norway so foreigners can get a better, more personal, idea. I just hope to bring an all round experience of being a foreigner with a Norwegian family. Who knows, maybe one day I’ll make myself officially Norwegian too.
I’m not sure I’d call it ironic, it’s just a sign of the world having gotten closer to us the last 40 years and something we have to deal with. Personally I don’t think it’s impossible to combine with clinging onto our own language. I also think it’s a good idea to learn one foreign language well, at a minimum.
____________________
from L-Jay:
We had this discussion at uni (amongst Norwegians, Germans, people from the Balkans, US (and Oz
). Our Norwegian lecturer put a light on how weird it is to choose to learn a language that only 5 million people speak in a far corner of the world. It was suggested that Spanish was a good language to learn as (I think) it is spoken in the most countries.
However, to reside in Norway you don’t have to know Norwegian. To get a Settlement Permit you don’t have to know Norwegian either – just have completed 300 hours of Norwegian classes. This is very lenient compared to other countries. It will be interesting to see if Norwegian will be around in 100 years time. Too bad I won’t be here to know…
When it goes I think it’ll be because we failed to hold onto it in enough situations. A few Norwegian companies already use English as their main language.
I don’t think enough foreigners come here for that to make much of a difference. The second generation will pick up the language anyway, if a bit poorer than they would with fluent parents.
It might not be a bad idea to ask for a pass on a test after those 300 hours anyway though. It’d only make life easier for anyone who came here, in the long run.
Call Centres: The vast majority of Norwegians do not allow them to call. You can ban them from calling you at: http://www.brreg.no or by calling 75007503. Since most people have banned them, the ones who have not get more calls.
I don’t know why they hang up when you answer in english. When I lived in the UK and answered in english as a matter of course, that did not stop them from trying. (That was before we could ban them of course) I shall have to try it next time someone calls illegally. (Some people still call, even if they are banned)
University: It is a bit more complex than that. An university education is open to everyone, mainly limited by ability. (And some studies, like medicine, have only a certain number of places, so you compete against other applicant in grades) The way to demonstrate the minimum ability to study is (mainly) by passing grades from the Norwegian “High School” in maths, norwegian, english, social studies and science.
In other words, passing grades in those 5 subjects are the “bar” you must clear to qualify for university.
The eldery:…yeah. Anyone know of a country where elderly people are not sometimes grouchy, racist or otherwise hold attitudes the modern world has left behind? I think everywhere has them.
Board of directors. Actually, that only applies for stock companies publically listed on the bourse. (And those boards are already subject to legislation in the form of responsibility and “habilitet”) Such boards are frequently stocked with people from outside the company anyway. Workers for inside the company rarely end up on the bord of directors. (Except some in elected positions, I think) Some people make an excellent living from being good at being on boards.
And their potential recruitment pool is…well, almost everyone.
Since boards normally nominate people they know, it had been a bit of a “boys club” that turned out to be particularily hard to crack for women. It is anticipated that in a few years, things will be mixed up enough that the whole law can be removed with networking more even.
The Bank: Frankly, that is just unacceptable! You should complain. I understand that individuals can be very insecure about their foreign language skills, but they should have had the courtesy to pass you on to someone more fluent! (Was it an 815-number? Because I’ve had a problem with them cutting off a bit after contact all day)
Yoga Classes: I think the yoga instructor needs to answer that one.
Most people meet 1000 people each day who don’t care about thir country of origin for every asshat that does. Most people will remember only the asshat.
____________________
from L-Jay:
Thanks for the heads up about blocking the call centres. I’ll try it but coz my number is used for a business I think by law it has to be in the public domain?
I understand the 1/1000 point – but to tell you the truth, struggling with being a foreigner is an every day occurrence. There is not a week that goes by that I don’t have an experience that reminds me I’m an ‘immigrant’ and ‘immigrants’ are not wanted in Norway. I’m lucky that I can blend in and if I don’t have to talk people will just think I’m Norwegian. Some immigrants can’t blend in at all, and I know they have it much harder than I do. Not everyone in Norway makes immigrants feel rejected or unwanted but there is usually one a day or one a week who do. Even though I love Norway, I also think it is important to let foreigners know that it is not all cream cakes and gløgg. Hopefully info found here will enable foreigners to make a better choice on whether to immigrate to Norway.
” Even though I love Norway, I also think it is important to let foreigners know that it is not all cream cakes and gløgg. Hopefully info found here will enable foreigners to make a better choice on whether to immigrate to Norway.”
Agreed. Coming here with the impression that it’ll be a cakewalk won’t do them any good, and will only make what’s actually bad seem even worse.
Oh, PS: I think it is easy for native English speakers to underestimate just how insecure Norwegians are about their English skills. Many people will flash back to the trauma of old Miss Facegnawer in high school demanding perfect pronouncialtion of everything. Some of the people with the best prounounciation are the least fluent and the most insecure. You can tell a Norwegian with post-traumatic pronouncialtion stress syndrome by the way the eyes flicker in panic just before they bolt.
The more fluent people are often the most happy-go-lucky with their pronounciation.
____________________
from L-Jay:
It’s kind of a catch 22. I speak English because I think Norwegians will understand my English much better than my Norwegian…lol. I always hear that Norwegians are shy and don’t actually know English as well as what other people make out. As a foreigner, even Norwegians tell me all Norwegians speak English. This is certainly not true. The more remote or Northern I go the more I have to rely on my immigrant-Norwegian. But some Norwegians are very considerate to make sure I don’t make too much of a dill out of myself. I think after a while they want to put me out of my misery so they start talking English – it’s really just easier. But it is exhausting having to be confronted with the Norwegian/English thing with every new encounter.
“Many people will flash back to the trauma of old Miss Facegnawer in high school demanding perfect pronouncialtion of everything.”
English in school was a very mixed bag for me. On one had I had a teacher who mocked a fellow pupil for the remainder of a class after his failure to pronounce “treasure island” anywhere near properly (in sixth grade). Then I also had a teacher pronounce vegetables “vedge tables” during my first year of videregående.
Despite the standard being very low at videregående we were still very hesitant to speak though, which I felt the effect of when I went on interrail two years later. I had a decent vocabulary, but my pronunciation was very awkward. A bit of an own goal that.
____________________
from L-Jay:
Actually, I’m amazed at how well my 14 year old Norwegian niece and nephew can write English. They are much better than me compared to my Norwegian writing…lol. One funny thing is that on my uni paper my Norwegian lecturer has corrected my ‘Australian’ English…lol. I find most Norwegians are better at English than I am – especially grammar. It must be because I don’t actually speak English, I speak Australian.
I’m new to your site, but am enjoying your photos and insights very much. I think your perspective on life as an immigrant is fascinating and I admire your courage! It must be a humbling/frustrating experience to be “on the outside” all the time. Thanks for sharing your life with us.
_____________________
from L-Jay:
Vær så god.
Interesting post. I’m a bit worried about this sort of thing as i plan to move to Oslo with my Norwegian samboer next year. I really want to learn the language so I can fit in better (and get a job) but I just hope people understand how difficult it is for an English speaker to reach a high level in Norsk. Not so much because I think the language itself is that hard, but because it will be very hard to speak Norsk without people preferring to communicate in their superior English.
Although I greatly admire Norwegian values and civilisation the flip side of this is unfortunately sometimes a suspicion of outsiders. I understand Norwegians wanting to protect their values and way of life, I just hope as someone who shares these values that I’m accepted and not seen as a threat.
____________________
from L-Jay:
A lot of my immigrant friends are often burdened by being treated as ‘outsiders’. But it really depends on how you personally choose to take things. The happiest way (I think) is to just ‘let it go’. I approach things by seeing everything as a different cultural experience. The more I try to find out what it means to be Norwegian, the less I am bothered by being an ‘outsider’.
But it sounds like you’ve got the right mindset to live in Norway. Trying to see things from a Norwegian’s point of view is good and you have realistic expectations. This is very important as it will certainly help you in your daily Norwegian life.
a land of dichotomies!
____________________
from L-Jay:
@beaverboosh
I think so.
The individual points stand on their own but when collectively looked at the post reveals that no one is left untouched by ‘discrimination’ in Norway.
___________
The other day I read a job ad that said they only want people aged between 20-30 years. (In Oz and the UK, at least, this is seen as a type of discrimination and is against the law.) This type of thing would normally receive amazing scrutiny but the national job centre was more than happy to post it up.
Here are some clippings from the job – the age group is highlighted:
The job will be displayed until 22 Nov. 2009. I could understand the age limit if they were wanting an apprentice but they aren’t.
L-jay I hear you!
It won’t matter where you are and where you are being a target as a foreigner. it’s always noticeable and painful. it just makes us a bit closer to ourselves and how we behave in our homeland when we see a foreigner! I think that it makes us better people by avoiding such ugly manner.
I have been called on 3 different occassions by a magazine company, when I say “Do you speak English?” They hang up on me every time! I’m glad I am not the only person this happens to… although I do find it odd that they just hang up and don’t even try to communicate with me!
The discrimination to immigrants just shows what stage Norway is at with immigration. There hasn’t been a mass migration to Norway, like there was to the UK in the 50’s. And it is not a colonised nation like Australia or the US. It is understandable, especially from the older generations, who until recently may not have been exposed to other cultures. I think Norway will be a more accepting multi-cultural society in 20-30 years time.
____________________
from L-Jay:
Thanks for sharing – sometimes when I tell people that this phenomenon actually happens they really really want to raise one eyebrow at me…lol. Its’ nice to know it happens to others and it’s not me going crazy…lol.
The Norwegian government is full-on with political correctness, more than most countries, especially when it comes to women’s rights. I think multi-culturalism hasn’t caught on because Norwegians are scared to loose their own culture. There are only 5 million of them and so it would be easy to do. This is one of the reasons why they are always super protective of their language.
That’s one thing I really miss about Australia – celebrating everyone else’s culture.
I want to say that in every country people migrate from day to day and that’s not something new at all.
People migrate and not just to Norway, to other countries as well, because people have a different taste for cultures, geographical zones and weather.
When I travel to a country that I want to live or just for a vacation, I always speak or at least I try to speak in that country’s languace, I think that’s polite for the people in that country.
Not native speaking but I try and that’s a positive impression.
I hate when people( French for example…80%) know only 1 languace and they don’t even know english…
Ok, you love your country and yes you have respect for it and you a very proud but… english is … must and really easy.
No need to have accent or to speak fluent but still…
People posting on english sites in other languaces it’s kinda pathetic.
I love Norway, and I hope one day I will work there as an English-Norvegian teacher.
At the moment I study the 2 languaces at the university.
I am very impresed by the landscapes, I love cold weather, viking storis and of course the civilization.
Cheers and I wish you only the best.
____________________
from L-Jay:
I’d expect countries like France will have to change their language philosophy since they are a member of the EU which has English as an official language. Also, English is known as the ‘international language’ – what happened to love?
Hi,
I am adopted, and I have to say that I was actually very afraid of elderly people when I was small, because as fast as my parents turned their attention away from me, especially elderly people could come up to me and be quite rude and sometimes racist. I was too small to really understand what was going on, understood only that the person didn’t like me. But of course, now when I’m grown up I don’t get this comments anymore, and if that ever should happen, oh, then they will definately regret it! Not until I met my exboyfriends grandparents at the age of 25, did I actually relax around elders – they were something of the sweetest I had ever met. Otherwise, living in Norway is still something I enjoy, and I don’t experience this negative sides as much as when I was a small girl.
____________________
from L-Jay:
I find that Norway is in the same stage of accepting immigrants as Australia was 20 years ago. It’s half and half – half of the country is really welcoming and the other half (if they were allowed to without being ostracised) would scream ‘go home!’. Even though I have given Norway two extra Norwegians and do what I can to contribute to society, every now and then I still get the feeling that I’m an invader.
My Norwegian family is absolutely lovely though. Farmor herself is an ‘immigrant’ from Finland and the family have many friends and family abroad – so when I joined the family they were a little excited that their family connections now spread to the Southern Hemisphere…lol.