15 Things I’m Not Afraid to Admit
I have been tagged! Debbie from Heart Choices would like to know 15 Things I’m Not Afraid to Admit.
Living in a different country where you don’t speak the language can be empowering and terrifying at the same time. I have accomplished things that I never thought I could do – every now and then I have to pinch myself to make sure Norway isn’t a dream. However, giving up my home, my friends and family and the familiar can make me feel lost and very insecure – almost… displaced. I’ve gone back into a child-like realm – ordinary things are new to me, daily life needs to be learnt and people talk around me even when I am right there. It feels like being an adult trapped inside a seven year old. It is a humbling experience to be an immigrant.
There are many things that an immigrant finds hard in daily life in Norway, here are just 15 things I’m not afraid to admit:
1. I try to sit where the teacher can’t see me in Norwegian class so I don’t get called upon to read out loud.
2. I feel embarrassed when they take my finger print at the airport to let me travel even on a domestic flight.
3. Norwegian feet are much wider than Australian feet and so I can’t find shoes that fit.
4. I feel like a leather bag standing next to a Norwegian – my face has been so damaged by the Australian sun. Norwegian’s have beautiful clear skin.
5. One time I booked the wrong air flight because I couldn’t read the Norwegian site properly.
6. I feel unwanted in Norway.
7. When strangers talk to me I just smile and nod because I don’t want them to know I’m an immigrant.
8. I hate Fårikål.
9. I don’t understand why Norwegians don’t care about the war ruins that were left behind by the Germans – and that they just leave them to fade away into the landscape.
10. I pick the worst spots to walk and always slip on the ice.
11. I feel guilty whenever I go to the immigration office because they always treat you as ‘other’.
12. I don’t understand how there could still be a communist party in Norway.
13. I am afraid of walking in the forest in the dark.
14. It is custom to take off your shoes when you enter someone’s house in Norway and to walk around in just your socks. Sometimes I forget to wear socks and feel embarrassed when people look down at my bare feet.
15. I’m sick of eating hot dogs!
Next tag: I have a friend who is studying in Bergen at the moment. Becky blogs about her experiences in Norway being on a study exchange program at http://alieninnorway.blogspot.com/
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Runes were the written language of the Vikings.
Pølse is THE fast food of Norway. When the grilled pølse was first introduced to Norway in the 50s it was eaten naked – without bread.
The bunad is a traditional Norwegian costume worn by both men and women. It can either come from established rural traditions or have a more modern design inspired by historical patterns and cuts.
Towards the water in a beautiful pocket of leafy oak trees is the Byneset Church.
Why do you feel unwanted? I always felt welcome in Norway and made lots of Norwegian friends. Perhaps it’s something to do with living in North Norway?
As for the communist party, I can understand that. Norway’s pretty much a socialist society and communism hooks on to that.
I always used to slip on the ice too
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from L-Jay:
A reply to: Why do you feel unwanted?
In general, you get the feeling that nobody wants immigrants in the country. Even though I can hide my ‘immigration’ because I have white skin, I am still affected by what Norwegians say about immigrants. In Norway, especially in the North, there are many refugees from war-torn countries – many wanted to go to the U.S. but got stuck with Norway instead. This greatly affects Norwegians and they consider certain immigrants to be ‘bludgers’. It is generally thought that most crime in the country, such as stabbings and rapes, happens because of immigrants, especially in Oslo. It is common for immigrant children to be picked on at school – even Americans. (Last week our American friends had to take their son to the hospital with a broken leg because Norwegian kids picked on him.) Americans also tend to be blamed for the Bush administration and the war on terror.
In the past four months I have read a few interesting stories from immigrant bloggers:
American in Norway wrote:
I have ALWAYS been PROUD to be an AMERICAN.. ALWAYS… but there have been alot of times that I would rather not advertise the fact that we are American because of concern for our safety…
…we as Americans living in Norway feel like we are sometimes blamed for the Bush admin…
Read more at:
http://tressainnorway.blogspot.com/2008/11/post-election-bash.html
Tales of a Texpatriate wrote:
For the past 6 1/2 years (yes, six and a half) I have been doing my damnedest to hide my Americaness. When I travel, when I’m at work, when I’m out and about in Oslo….I was never proud of where I came from. (OK, I love being a Texan, but an American? Not so much.) A few times I faked being Norwegian or German or Canadian, just to avoid the questions of “Why is your country the way it is?”
Maybe, just maybe, I can be the good guy again. People can smile and say “You’re American? Great!” and not “Oh…. you’re American?….(pause)”
Read more at:
http://karlastories.blogspot.com/2008/11/weight-lifted.html
My Grand Adventure wrote:
All three of my classmates said old people in Sandefjord are a particular problem, that they stare at them in a mean way and refuse to speak to them.
Norwegian women came right up to them and told them to “go back to where they came from.” Another [classmate] said that she remembered a day last year when she was walking to the store and was followed by a couple of Norwegian teenage girls. The girls were talking loudly about how foreigners come to Norway just to have babies and get welfare. They began pointing at my classmate, who was pregnant at the time, and saying, “See! See!”
Read more at:
http://michelesmistakes.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html
In politically correct Norwegian society Norway is NOT a racist country and, in fact, Norway is a leader in anti-racial consciousness, but in everyday life, everyday racism exists.
The anti-Americanism from Norwegians is not alien to me either, not by a long shot. It’s gotten to the point that it’s practically sport for me, and I actually look forward to the next oil money spoiled sheep farmer telling me what I don’t know about the world lol.
I’ve found the best way to respond to these kind of attitude and conversation is to make sure you have your facts straight before hand and just openly hand them their Norwegian asses in a political/social conversation. (it’s not hard to do I assure you). And when I do it I don’t do it lightly, although that’s my personal choice and I don’t necessarily recommend it for everyone. Norwegians have no concept of facts, of research or peer reviewed literature or using any of the more reliable resources to support their arguments or form their ideologies. However that doesn’t mean they don’t love to argue. As I heard one well traveled Norwegian himself say, ‘A Norwegian would argue with God about what Heaven looks like”. They latch on to one book written by a zealous author, or some random blog on the web and they use it to support an entire ideology. And Norwegians tend to not just disagree but look down their nose at other ideologies as if it’s inferior simply because it’s not their own. I think this comes from the ignorance and lack of cultural experience that comes from being isolated and having such a homogenous culture. Variety is the spice of life and it’s also a key component of wisdom.
My wife of 11 years is an ethnic Norwegian who has lived in the US for 13 years and becomes highly frustrated with constantly being told what to do by Norwegians. Especially when it comes to child rearing/etc because she herself has a 6 year degree in child therapy lol. It’s always fun to hear some random norwegian secretary tell a child psychologist what she doesn’t know about children lol.
If there is something in particular they heckle you about, research it thoroughly and shut them down. Everytime you get that deer in headlights look from a Norwegian you have completely stumped them by actually citing objective facts and should award yourself a point. Oh and in particular about the George Bush thing, there’s so much I could get into about that, but something I like to point out on a regular basis is how the Norwegians were convinced that George Bush was throwing out hand signals to the devil in a parade LMAO. Apparently it never occured to the Norwegian author or the many people who have cited the article to me that the other thousands of people doing it in the crowd, and in particular the brightly orange clad Texas Long Horns marching band that was doing it as well were not all secretly satanists. For those of you who aren’t familiar with American college football, the hand signal is sticking out your index and small finger while retracting the other three so that your hand looks like a “Texas Longhorn”, the breed of cattle that is the mascot for the university lol. Here is a link to one article about it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6852171/ns/world_news-weird_news/
I hope that those of you who have Norwegian spouses will excuse my bluntness and not be offended, and I wish that you will remember I have been married to a wonderful Norwegian woman for 11 years now and I KNOW from my own experience that not all Norwegians behave in the way that has have been discussed here. (It seems in my experience the Norwegians who marry internationally are more educated and have a more realistic and intelligent grasp of the world). However I have never interacted with a culture of people that are so aggressively over opinionated about everything under sun yet in the same breath reveal they are no more educated or intelligent than most of the “third world savages” they tend to insult in that breath.
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from L-Jay:
Very Interesting. I also find that when Norwegians argue with you they don’t expect you to argue back…lol. But it is true that Norwegians argue with information that they just presume is correct which they heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. They don’t question an idea before using it and this means you can usually beat a Norwegian in an argument with logic. Norwegians understand logic but they don’t use it very well to support their arguments. This is, as you said, because their ideas are based on social, cultural and olden-day myths. I think it is also due to the fact that Norway is behind in practicing Western customs – for example Occupational Health and Safety. Norwegians understand the theory but have no practice in such thought. Things that I would never do, like using a wooden ladder or laying a power cord over a pathway, would never occur to a Norwegian as a bad thing. They think I’m just being difficult when I will not allow such things but I always come back with the logic behind it, which is only normal thought from my culture, and it always seems to put a Norwegian in a humble place. They never think of what could be and this is what keeps a Norwegian from progressing. Norwegians work well with “others” but become stale when they work with their own.
Haha I swear I have a split personality disorder and your blog is written by one of them lol. Many of our experiences are so similar that my wife has chuckled non stop at some of our posts because they sound exactly like conversations her and I have had.
She scolded some carpenters a couple months ago because they were working on the neighbors house and decided to pile all their tools and spare lumber up on our front door steps blocking the main entrance to our house lol. I have very rarely seen my wife be cross with someone before so I pick at her about it on a regular basis. 
Anyway I was afraid you might think I was condoning starting political fights with Norwegians, which is not what I meant to convey, but that Americans/Brits and people from other cultures should not be afraid to have a give and take with Norwegians instead of just being the punching bag. When you come from an English culture I think you anticipate that someone who is as opinionated as most Norwegians will also be well educated or very knowledgeable, and therefore the basis for their opinions to be fairly sound. Unfortunately that is not the case with Norway (and it seems to me at times maybe scandinavia in general) so people should not be intimidated by it but should take the opportunity to respond to the Norwegian. If a Norwegian is friendly to me I continue the friendly exchange, I only meant to say that I have a tendency to be aggressive when I encounter the “stupid Americans don’t know blah blah blah” type attitude.
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from L-Jay:
I don’t think the ‘stupid Americans’ thing is just in Norway. Australia has it too. I remember the change in Australian opinion about Americans distinctly around 2002, as I was studying it at University. It started with Clinton and then Bush made it worse. Australians liked Clinton but then he had the affair fiasco. Australians always thought Bush was a joke. And Obama isn’t living up to expectations. WikiLeaks also shapes opinion of Americans. I think the ‘studip Americans’ is something that Americans have to confront where ever they go.
I am amazed at how strong Norwegians are about politics. In Australia we hate politics, think it is all a joke and don’t care to talk about it. I find politics is the one thing Norwegians like to voice an opinion on. Like Moose, for example, ask him about anything and he often doesn’t know as he has never thought about it. Ask him about politics and he jumps up with a torch and pitchfork…lol.
I can understand how it can be hard for Norwegians letting ‘outsiders’ in. In their own little Norwegian world they may be knowledgeable but the outsider always knows more. I used to let Norwegians know how little they knew but now I’ve learnt to be more tactful. In my industry, the Arts, there are no Norwegians who are educated in what I do. There is no education for it in Norway. I have a degree in my field and lots of experience. Working with uneducated Norwegians was really hard for me – they didn’t know even the basics of stage management or technical theatre. They had been running things like a public school puppet show and I came in expecting them to at least be to the standard of university theatre. They had worked at puppet show level for years, it served them well, and they didn’t see the need to lift their standards. Me, I was getting frustrated with work until I finally gave up my expectations. It was less painful going with the Norwegian flow than upholding my work standards. But… I finally learnt the trick. I know how Norwegians work now. I go into a new work situation with a Norwegian attitude ‘that’ll do’. But on my own I work to my personal standards. This amazingly makes a Norwegian take notice and they in turn want to raise their standards. Before I was like a big bad wolf trying to make the Norwegians change but it is much better to creep in your standards – coming on too strong, knock down walls or building staircases will scatter Norwegians. Norwegians dig their heels in when someone makes them change but get a Norwegian to think he has made the decision himself and the sky is the limit…lol.
L-Jay: When I visited Norway, I went with my parents who were fluent in the language. We traveled to different parts of the country, visiting relatives. Even though I was an adult, I also felt like a child. Everyone would be speaking Norwegian and I could only understand bits of what they were saying. It’s an odd feeling. Of course, they were kind but still, it’s difficult. And my trip was just several weeks.
You have such courage moving to a new country, new culture, new language and customs. I’m amazed as I read your writings and the sense of adventure you have but … I’m sure there are moments.
I’ve heard stories of the war and the Germans from family members.
L-Jay, thank you for sharing from your heart. God sees all the details of your life … and He loves you. I’m so glad that we can communicate through our blogs and be friends.
L-Jay, Moose is so fortunate to have a wonderful wife like you. You must love him very much
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from L-Jay:
Thank you
I forgot to add one more thing! My dad and I have short but wide feet…and I feel most comfortable in clogs. And I always take my shoes off when I come in the house. Must be a Norwegian thing too.
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from L-Jay:
…lol. There are a good amount of things I used to do/say in Oz in daily life and when I moved here I realised they were from a Norwegian influence. Like, in Oz, sometimes say ‘Hey Hey’ when we meet someone we already know. I lived in Harstad for a while and they have a custom of saying ‘Hei Hei’ when they greet a friend. Very interesting! although, Australia seems to ‘borrow’ from all over the world.
I am cutting and pasting a message to you from Laurel of Laurel Wreaths Rreflections. She got an error message and asked me to pass along her comments to you.
It won’t let me comment on her blog, can you pass this along to her:
Laurel
lrlwreath@gmail.com
http://www.laurelwreathsreflections.com
I am a friend of Debbie’s at Heart Choices. I just wanted to stop by and say “hi.” I could never compare my experience of moving to yours, but the Lord picked me up and moved me away from all family (granted still in the US – but even that took me TWO LONG years to adjust). I just had, had a brand new baby (moved with a 4 month old) did not know what I was doing and had NO help. I was lost.
Just know I am praying for you, praying you can find a friend to help you. How long have you been there? This type of adjustment is going to take time because of the language barrier. Finding a church for me was the best thing that happened, I met some kind girlfriends.
The pictures on your header are beautiful. Many blessings!!
This is the error I got:
Sorry, there was an error. Please enable JavaScript and Cookies in your browser and try again.
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from L-Jay:
Thank you, Laurel. I have a wonderful Norwegian family support. However, my heart goes out to those who don’t have a Norwegian connection. Norway gets a good amount of refugees from war-torn countries. Instead of putting them into Asylum camps in the desert, like Australia does, they live and ‘intergrate’ into society. These are the people who are most affected by racial challanges living in Norway. Sometimes I wish I could shout out: Before we were immigrants, we were people!
You have inspired me to write a little more on the topic. Norwegians are an amazing, compassionate bunch – I think the most important thing I can do is to do my bit to create awareness.
Thank you for your thoughts and support
L-jay,
I’m Debbie’s friend (Heart-Choices), and I just read your blog-tag. My goodness, you don’t think about such things when life seems to be so constant. In fact, sometimes you think “life is boring, I’d like to try something new.” But I guess “new” can be difficult, as well as exciting at times. But I think it must be a bit harder for you, as this is now your home. That doesn’t mean it isn’t the right thing for you, but none the less, I can see that it is hard. I appreciate your sharing, as it will help me to deal with people new to my area, especially those from other countries. Thanks
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from L-Jay:
Hi Helen
When I first came here, sometimes I would get a little flustered, especially when I went shopping. I wouldn’t know what all the ‘new’ food was or how to cook it. Shoe sizes and dress sizes are different here too. But I’m lucky, I have a patient husband who has been showing me how to live in Norway. And because he’s had to teach me so much, we have grown so much closer.
(But, sometimes I can’t wait for life to be ‘constant’ here…lol.)
Hi L-Jay
Thanks for tagging me – I’m not sure what it is but I’ll have a go! I just looked at all of the blogs on my list and they are not updating properly, so I wasn’t aware of this until you and Debbie kindly posted on my blog.
Just wanted to add that alot of the sentiments you have I understand fully – even though I am engaged to a Norwegian and have been accepted fully by his family sometimes yes I feel unwated – I have to say though I feel it much more keenly now I am here alone.
I also understand what you meant about being able to ‘hide’ the fact that you’re an immigrant – I feel that too.
Thanks again for such an open an honest blog, it’s nice to read posts from someone else who is so in love with Norway! Even though at the moment its temporary, it wont be long before we both move here ourselves so I am getting extra inspiration from you!
xxx
(right – I’ll have a go at the tag thing)
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from L-Jay:
The one thing that I’m really excited to learn about is ‘Norweginess’. I’m so curious about what it is to be Norwegian. Sometimes I like standing back and watching my Norwegian family. The dinner table is very amusing…lol. However, at first I used to feel a little left out when everyone spoke Norwegian – every now and then they would throw a comment my way or even give me a ‘re-cap’ of the conversation in English…lol. It was thoughtful, but it sometimes made me feel I was a ‘party-pooper’ as they would have to stop and take extra care of the non-Norwegian speaker. But I eventually learned that even though I couldn’t join in the conversation, sharing their company, and participating in family activities, was very important to building our family relationships. Now I enjoy the chatter around the table, I’m definitely part of the family – and I can even understand some things too!
Hi L-Jay,
This is an interesting post. I can really understand how you feel as your writing to explain this is very good. How you felt like a child trapped in an adult body.
It is also interesting that they take off their shoes when they come into a house. I wonder if this is a cold weather thing, because they don’t want to get dirt on the floor. We always did this growing up in Maine, USA.
Great that you are hanging in there and are able to write about your experiences so well (and honestly). I also love your post on teaching dance.
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from L-Jay:
From what I can tell, taking your shoes off before going inside (and your gloves, scarf and jacket) is very common is Scandinavia and the Nordic countries. Lots of snow gets on your gear so most houses have an entry way with bare wooden floors for quick drying – and it is interesting to note that many houses have heated flooring – so your toes don’t get cold…lol.
I guess I’m learning to make sure I remember to wear socks with no holes…lol. Being an ‘always late’ person, it is so hard to find un-holey socks in a rush…lol.
Communists? Well, remember that Finnmark was in fact liberated by the Red Army.
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from L-Jay:
This is a very interesting discussion. As I understand it:
During the occupation of WWII, the Norwegian Communist party was in two minds – some initiated and fought in a resistance but others sympathised with the Nazi’s and assisted them – the later became know as traitors to the country – and the party has not been able to out-live the disgrace. Hence, ‘I don’t understand how there could still be a communist party in Norway’.
As for the Red Army – it says in wikipedia that ‘the Red Army liberated Finnmark’ – but in fact, they only ‘liberated’ Kirkenes (25 October 1944) and then a few other areas – not all of Finnmark – before the war ended. This liberation was at the end of the war when the occupation realised they were losing and began to make preparations for retreat out of Norway on their own.
In fact, most of the Russians in the North were prisoners. They were taken to Troms and forced to build housing for the North Norwegian evacuees. I have a short video on YouTube of just one of the houses built by the Russia prisoners: Left Behind
When the war was over, all of the Russian prisoners were executed by their own Red Army for betraying their country. It was expected that they die for their country – their communist leaders said they were traitors for being captured and lived.
Russia has always been a force for Norway to watch. In 2000, Russian generals openly threatened to bomb the Globus Radar in Vardø, Norway, with nuclear missiles.
When I think of the Russians helping the Norwegians during WWII – I think of the Russian people and not the Communist Party. Sure the Communist Party decided to put their people in Norway to fight the Germans but it was the Russian people and not their political views that ‘freed’ Norway.
I’m only a novice at Norwegian War history but I find it very intriguing. A lot of what I know has come from Farfar who was a Norwegian evacuee from Finnmark.
In my Norwegian culture class we learned that Norway tried and convicted over 50,000 of its own citizens for treason after WWII. Apparently Nazi sympathy was quite abundant in Norway at the time. Recently in news papers there was an article about the 15k Norwegian women who slept with Nazi soldiers and became pregnant and how their children were denied the usual gov funds because of their mothers “treason”.
Be very careful trying to have a discussion with Norwegians face to face about WWII. I do it all the time but I’m almost 2 meters and 115 kilos. They tend to be more respectful to me. However if it’s 1 thing I’ve learned about Norwegians in my up coming year here, a Norwegians are perfectly content with believing what they want to believe rather than educating themselves before forming their ideologies. I hear regular and consistent fussing and whining out of Norwegians about how the USA was neutral in WWII. Apparently the majority of the Norwegian population is ignorant to the fact that Norway was in fact neutral in both WWs and that the only reason there was any fighting in Norway in WWII was because the Germans invaded. (for a few reasons like iron ore and strategic access to the North Sea). They also seem to be in denial that most of the fighting in Norway was done by the French and the British as well.
I have seen adult norwegians (born after WW2) verbally assault elderly family members over WWII disagreements(it’s always the ones born after that get pissy o-O). Apparently the only Norwegians who suffered any trauma during WW2 weren’t even alive at the time lol.
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from L-Jay:
I’ve heard some Norwegians talk about how the Swedes regret not taking sides with the allies. They see it as a shame on Swedens part. I think it might really be due to the fact that Sweden didn’t come to Norway’s aid when the Nazis invaded (in fact, they helped the Nazis in letting them go through Sweden to get to Norway). But I have heard a lot of sympathy for the Russians of WWII, especially in the North. Many Russian prisoners became friends with the Norwegians but when they returned back to their Motherland they were shot under Stalins orders. I have heard about the ‘Tyskerunger’ and watched an old Norwegian movie on the subject. There is so much vagueness about the wars in Norway. Norwegians just want to forget about them. But from what it seems, Norwegians didn’t really fight that much but did many things to sabotage instead. I think this says a lot about the Norwegian character.
I found your blog when I was googling “What’s bad about Norway?”. I’m a Norwegian who is active in politics, and who wants to know what Norway should do in order to become a better country, both for the citizens and for those who want to move to Norway. Your blog is very interesting and helpful, and I’m sorry for that our immigration policies is messed up, and that you’ve met a lot of xenophobic Norwegians. I think it’s great that you are so honest about what you think of Norway
Billy DK: I have seen some of your comments. I don’t know if I should believe in you, or if you are generalizing Norwegians based on some of the people you’ve met during your stay. I do not know how long you’ve been here, and how many Norwegians you’ve met so far, so I would appreciate if you could elaborate. The Norwegian culture need to change here and there, but I do not think it is as bad as you present it as. There are a lot of Norwegians who are aware of that we weren’t saints during the Second World War. I think you discussed the topic with the worst of the worst.
PS: L-Jay and Billy; I’m sorry for replying on comments that were posted years ago. I just had to answer
That is correct, but the Wehrmacht retreated all the way to until safety behind the mountains in Troms because of the advancing Red Army. This was the only part of Norway that was in fact “liberated”, in the rest of Norway the Wehrmacht simply lay down their guns when Germany itself surrendered May 1945.
In addition, Finnmark’s proximity to Russia also shaped the attitude towards russians and communism. I guess that is part of the picture.
About 15,000 russian POWs died in Norway, and several thousand soldiers during fighting at Kirkenes. Compared to 970 (yes, 970) Norwegian soldiers during the invation in 1940.
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from L-Jay:
I feel really sad about the Russian POWs. Being at Harstad and standing in the housing they were forced to build really effected me. In Australia, we don’t have any war ruins because we were never really invaded. I can not imagine how it must have felt for Farfar and his family having their house burnt to the ground, being moved to another county and having to watch Russian POWs build them a house to sleep in. Farfar personally knew some of the Russian POWs – he helped one Russian escape and another POW came to visit Farfar in Alta when the war was over, as they had become great friends, but he was shot for treason when he went back to Russia. I don’t think he would have got shot if Russia was a democracy.
It must have been really weird for everyone when the war was over – the Germans still being in the country but not a threat anymore. It must have been weird to accept ‘let by-gones be by-gones’. I’ve never really heard anyone talk in detail about the weeks or months straight after the world wars.
Thanks for your comments – they’ve really got me thinking and researching
hi L-jay. i just found your blog today and have spent the last hour or so admiring your photos. they’re absolutely gorgeous
anyhow… i moved here around three years ago and i still don’t feel like a part of the society. it’s like i can’t shake the ‘innvandrer’ label. i blame it on the norwegians’ unwillingness to open up to anything new. to make things worse, i’m from indonesia so i look asian. this means most of the time they think of me as an uneducated, good-for-nothing immigrant
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from L-Jay:
Hi Fi!
I understand completely. (I’ve had the same feelings from time to time.) I think there are two things that contribute to Norwegian’s perception of ‘outlanders’:
Firstly, the news always labels countries which labels people. If you come from a ‘rich’ country then you are from ‘the West’, but if you come from a ’3rd world’ country (or even a ’2nd world’ country) then the people are too poor to be educated and contributing members from society (and if they escape to the West they would have a better life). Its very hard to beat stereotypes.
Secondly, not knowing the language – or knowing the langauge but still sounding like an ‘immigrant’ because you don’t roll your ‘R’s or use genders properly – can make us sound un-educated. The same thing happened with one of my Korean friends in Australia. We were studying at a prestigious Arts college together. He would get very frustrated because in his own country he was well respected for his craft but in Australia people didn’t think he was smart or knew what he was talking about because he couldn’t speak English properly – he found it very hard to get his ideas across – and so he felt ‘de-valued’.
I’ve personally found that even though I come from a country that Norwegians know is in the West, I still get the ‘why are you here?’ vibe. It’s only when Norwegian’s get to know me personally that all ‘vibes’ disappear. They say it is hard to make friends with a Norwagian but when you do you have a friend for life!
Norway hasn’t really opened up to ‘internationalism’ yet – but they are starting too. I guess it’s up to us ‘pioneers’ to break the stereotypes and pave the way for future enlightenment…lol – then we can say: ‘welcome to the ‘other’ side’
Thanks for your comment
(!)Groan(!)
Some of these posts were painful to read (on several levels).
Not that I was unaware that this kind of xenophobia/chauvinism/”(not so soft) bigotry of low expectations” was out there, and quite common at that.
But I had hoped that that the Norwegian penchant for reservedness and confrontation/conflict-evasion would at least temper this somewhat (maybe it actually does, but if so it’s even more depressing not less).
The only other country I have lived in for an extended period (Japan) is not a good basis for a comparison because it has almost the same national ethos and philosophy of culture, ethnicity and social compact. In short both peoples have a sense of themselves as occupying an insular, safe, egalitarian, cohesive “island” at the edge of a continent and have a very
“blood- and soil”-like concept what the nation is.
I have no first hand knowledge of how it is other places but I can’t imagine the “Anglosphere” or “Francophonie” being quite this bad with respect to these issues.
However I do have hopes that things will get better. I would recommend this book to all those interested in these issues: Cosmopolitanism: Ethics in a World of Strangers by Kwame Anthony Appiah
Also Kenan Malik has what I think is the best take on culture and tlerance
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/15902
I also think this is both a compelling and comforting point
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/15749
Watch from 37:25 to 41:30
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from L-Jay:
I find those discussions extremely interesting, particularly about identity, culture and assimulation.
I think one of the things immigrants first face is loss of identity – this generally leads them to ask themselves ‘who am I without my culture?’ And then a decision is made whether to keep their past culture or assimulate into the next. I’m not keen on the idea that the past makes you who you are – I do believe that the past shapes who you are today – just a slight difference there between ‘being effect upon’ and experience.
I think there needs to be a greater distance of meaning between culture and identity. In ‘post-post-modernism’ they are usually put together, I have heard so many lecturers that like to use that word combination, but I think the words need to become separate from each other in order to get a greater understanding of the two. I think Australia would be a perfect study subject on this topic as it seems in some way ‘convict’ Australians have always been envious of the long histories of other ‘cultures’. In the past, Australia borrowed from Mother England but it is hard to keep a culture of a people who essentially exiled you…lol. Australia has always struggled with identity. Even though America is made up of mostly immigrants like Australia, ‘American’ started in the 1400s whereas Australia was only ‘discovered’ in 1788.
‘Integration’ (or assimulation) is a popular word among governments and the educated. It is politically correct – but that somehow makes it worse. I’ve always preferred the word ‘inclusion’. It is generally associated with special needs people, however, I think it is better to be included in society rather than being integrated. I like the idea that every ‘other’ is accepted into society and valued and considered equal no matter their culture and traditions.
Dictionary.com’s meaning for integration is: The bringing of people of different racial or ethnic groups into unrestricted and equal association, as in society or an organization; desegregation. That’s nice – but not everyone is from a ‘different racial or ethnic group’. White Australian’s may be considered in the same ‘Caucasian group’ as Norwegians in ‘biology groupings’ but can be considered ‘ethnic’ in terms of language, tradition and living, through ‘cultural groupings’. This is why the meanings of ‘culture’ and ‘identity’ should be separate and as in the video discussions, there needs to be a strong separate definition for groupings of biology and groupings of civilizations/culture.
I think the progression and misunderstanding of ‘meanings’ have a lot to play in ‘labeling’ groups. The meanings and usage of words change – which distort a common idea or understanding. As discussed in the videos, it was thought that race was used to help with preventing disease – however, this was a misunderstanding as it was not ‘race’ but more ‘demographic groupings’ that suffered from certain diseases. This is a good example of how language and meaning is created and lost. A langauge that is being created as we speak – the whole world is creating this new universal language – because of convenience and speed – is the Internet language.
This brings me to the point of whether we should use language as identity – and therefore culture? The Internet is often spoken of as a culture but I don’t think Internet users consider this a main source for their identity – its just communication. However, it seems like it is very common for Norwegians to identify themselves by their language. I sense a general fear among Norwegians that their language will die out and therefore a large part of their identity will be lost. But as Kenan Malik said, maybe language shouldn’t be used as identity but as a way of communicating…lol. Therefore, it would be easier for Norwegians to assimulate into the ‘universal’ language without the loss of their identity.
But maybe it is a NEED for humans to ‘group’ to maintain a sense of pride and ‘specialness’ that is working against assimulation?
Just some thoughts
The links were great and very helpful. I am pleased that such discussions are freely available – thank you so much for the important links.
I don’t find the ideals of communism any more appalling than those of the of most the parties on the right, to be honest. It hasn’t been implemented with any success yet, perhaps it never will, but I find the ideas appealing enough. I’ll never vote that far to the left though, not for the first few hundred years.
About leaving WWII ruins to fade away, I think most Norwegians like Germany to some extent, and don’t care to latch onto bad memories.
Side note: If you don’t care to roll your Rs, move to vestlandet, we don’t either, and we feel perfectly at home in Norway
Great blog by the way, interesting writing, amazing pictures. Sorry to comment on an ancient post.
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from L-Jay:
Vær så god.
Yes, I don’t care about the ‘r’ lol – it always makes me say things twice as long, although I can’t help rolling them! I’ve tried to leave them out but something is making me keep them in – it’s a curse…lol.
I’ve always wanted to go tot he west. I planned to go this Summer but I had a baby instead. Next year, definitely!
I’m very curious about the effect of the war on Norwegians. I’ve heard that that was when Norway lost its innocence. It seems that Norway pretends that nothing happened almost as if they cannot bare to face the feelings they felt. A kind of ‘if they don’t acknowledge them, do they really exist’ thing.
Australians do not want to forget the wars – if they do they will loose part of their identity. Because Australia was such a new country, the wars were the first ‘happening’ in its history that really brought the people together. Now that all the world war soldiers have died, their grandchildren march in the ANZAC parades to keep the tradition alive. When I explained this to a Norwegian one time he thought it was very odd that a people would go to such lengths to ‘remember’. But Australians are in for the long hall: ‘Lest We Forget, Lest We Forget’.
Well it’s hard to say exactly what we would go about remembering.
It’s not as if the second the war started, all the good and honest citizens of Norway jumped out of the couch to defend the world against Mr. Hitler. Even after we were invaded there were people on both sides, which, to be honest, I can understand. The people who chose to side with the allies probably didn’t do it out of pity for the jews as much as because they felt it was the better thing to do for our country. A feeling of white superiority was above the table then, here and elsewhere. The US army that fought the war was segregated.
It’s just hard to see exactly what we’d parade around for. “Woo, the obviously demented people were beaten back by the people who still had quite the moral quirks..”.
Of course, this could just be me, but I see poor form on both sides of the war, like Dresden. Obviously more on one side, but still enough muddy stuff on “our” side to put a damper on any urge to celebrate.
Of course I’m not saying we ought to forget about it, far from it, I just don’t find that I reflect the best on things while marching.